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Finding a wife
Hi,
A realy good friend of mine is looking for a wife. He wants a Christian wife. What should he do? What should he look for? How do you know if someone is REALLY Christian, and not just acting?
This isn't a topic that should go under PERSONAL ISSUES. (but if you disagree - please move it)
Let me explain why:
Marriage is a sacrament. Its not a personal issue. Your marriage is indeed a public and Holy affair. The selection of a wife/husband, isn't something trivial, but it should involve God from the start; even from the selection process.
But how does one choose?
What should you look for?
What questions should he ask a girl to know whether she really is who she says she is??
For me personally, I think God reveals everything to you; and its for you to decide. Everyone is probably at different spiritual levels, and these levels are manifested to you. that's my opinion. Shall I just tell him that?
A realy good friend of mine is looking for a wife. He wants a Christian wife. What should he do? What should he look for? How do you know if someone is REALLY Christian, and not just acting?
This isn't a topic that should go under PERSONAL ISSUES. (but if you disagree - please move it)
Let me explain why:
Marriage is a sacrament. Its not a personal issue. Your marriage is indeed a public and Holy affair. The selection of a wife/husband, isn't something trivial, but it should involve God from the start; even from the selection process.
But how does one choose?
What should you look for?
What questions should he ask a girl to know whether she really is who she says she is??
For me personally, I think God reveals everything to you; and its for you to decide. Everyone is probably at different spiritual levels, and these levels are manifested to you. that's my opinion. Shall I just tell him that?
Comments
My personal opinion is simple I guess. This isn't a matter we need to worry about. If God's will for us is to find someone, they will come our way without needing to constantly and actively be on the hunt. I feel like when we're "on the hunt" we're going to God like little kids at a toy store and being like "can I get this one? or maybe this one?". I feel like we limit God by trying to do His work for him. He can do so much better and doesn't really need our help. You're right when you say keep God in it from the start, but I think its better to let God work from the start, He's smarter than we could ever be :) Guidance from a FOC is key, and just let God do His thing.
And I was thinking, I think Marriage is one of the most personal things out there. The Sacrament of Marriage of course is "indeed a public and Holy affair" but the reason the church instituted marriage so that two people could become one person. I don't think it gets more personal than becoming one person :) Lets not forget, our God is a very personal God. Not one that lives high up in His kingdom or even just plainly among us, but within us. It's a beautiful thing. I love it.
Pray for me.
Hola,
My personal opinion is simple I guess. This isn't a matter we need to worry about. If God's will for us is to find someone, they will come our way without needing to constantly and actively be on the hunt. I feel like when we're "on the hunt" we're going to God like little kids at a toy store and being like "can I get this one? or maybe this one?". I feel like we limit God by trying to do His work for him. He can do so much better and doesn't really need our help. You're right when you say keep God in it from the start, but I think its better to let God work from the start, He's smarter than we could ever be :) Guidance from a FOC is key, and just let God do His thing.
And I was thinking, I think Marriage is one of the most personal things out there. The Sacrament of Marriage of course is "indeed a public and Holy affair" but the reason the church instituted marriage so that two people could become one person. I don't think it gets more personal than becoming one person :) Lets not forget, our God is a very personal God. Not one that lives high up in His kingdom or even just plainly among us, but within us. It's a beautiful thing. I love it.
Pray for me.
An FOC will only tell you the obvious things:
a) Never cross boundaries where you both could be tempted.
b) The more you have in common, the less problems you'll have in marriage.
But, OK - you have a lot in common - but so what? What if someone wants a good Christian wife? What things should he look for?
What questions does he need to ask? (if any!).
But isn't that distrusting God with the situation? I feel like that's saying Oh God is just gonna tell me the same things as usual its my turn to go out and do this on my own. I don't think that's the way he'd have it. And I disagree about the FOC. He's more than a guy reading the rule book to you. He should know everything about you, how your mind works and how your spiritual life struggles. Then he can help you truly find God's will for this. But again, I don't think your friend should be actively searching for a wife. Where's God in that?
Hang on, many people (Coptic Christians) get divorced. Do you know this? Many get married to the wrong person. And many went in "trusting God".
Anba Angaelos was saying that it is foolish to go around saying "Trust in God" for everything, and asking people's advice. God reveals to you, and you have intelligence. However, with respect to finding a wife, what deductions should one make?
When someone gets divorced, what do you tell them? "Ah! You didnt trust in God.. you chose according to your own intelligence". Its an unfair burden you place on people.
God gave us a proactive mind to be thinking and smart individuals, but when its used in trying to solve problems on our own we are putting more faith on the Creation than the Creator. What good is it to say that God gave us a mind, we can trust Him but find a wife on our own? It just doesn't make sense with the attributes of our God.
And divorce is a huge topic that doesn't need to be opened here, but as for them that do get divorced, they need guidance more than anything. From God and from an FOC. Its that simple. Just like any other sin that needs to be destroyed, this one is the same.
As for a wife, even though I still think being on the look out of every girl I meet isn't the way to do it (and kinda creepy lol) I think it should be someone that isn't searching out the will of God but just living it. This was my point in the beginning. Sometimes we just are so active and searching and all this chaos, and God simply wants you to keep quiet and to stop searching for what His will could be and simply just live it by following His commandments. That's all I got to say, it doesn't need any more complications than that.
Pray for me.
[quote author=kirollos3 link=topic=9601.msg118221#msg118221 date=1281986064]
so pick the right product.
seriously?? it's like we're being sold or something...
so youre saying its wrong to properly objectify women?
Remember, a wife isn't just for Christmas: she's for life!
How do you pick the right one??
Likewise, if I, as a priest, was to say to my bishop, you know it is no fun being with my congregation, they are really annoying and we don't get on, he would not be very sympathetic. Or rather he would be sympathetic to my congregation for having a priest with the wrong idea of what a vocation is.
None of this means we should choose lightly. But having chosen we have set ourselves on a path to which we have committeds ourselves, and for good or bad we must seek salvation on it.
There are violent and abusive husbands. I do not believe that any woman should be forced to remain married to such, and husbands who treat their wives violently and abusively should be liable to the strictest sanctions of the Church. But it does seem to me that just not getting on is not a good enough reason to abandon the married vocation. Or not having fun. Or finding the other partner boring. Or finding that there are not many things in common. None of these are reasons for breaking the vows we make. Just as a monk who finds the monastic life hard cannot just abandon it. The married life is not easy for a great many people. Salvation is found by persevering and by seeking humility, obedience and holiness. Above all others, two Christians should be able to bear with one another. Even more, one committed Christian should be able to bear with hardship and difficulties in marriage. (I am always excluding violence and abuse from what should be borne with).
If we only expect a wonderful life then we will be rapidly disappointed and shaken. The Christian life is not often like that. And in my own experience there is something wrong if it feels like that for long, any more than a breather given by God.
We should consider marriage as we would consider entering the monastic life. It is no easier. There is no easy way out of the promises we make in either case. Both require a spiritual preparation of humility, obedience and holiness above all else. We should not be so concerned with seeking a partner, as seeking to be the people that can properly enter into the married state.
Seek first the kingdom of God and all these things shall be added unto you
This is a verse that applies here. The Lord will make his ways known to us. We often want to tell him what those ways should be.
This does not answer the question about how do we know if a partner is right, except to say that I am not sure that is so important unless there are obvious impediments. What is necessary is not to insist on our choice. It is often hard to let go of a choice we have already made.
I have also reflected on this for some time, and it seems to me that for much of history marriage was not as it is now in the West, a matter of two people 'falling in love'. There was a much greater sense of the practical need to find a life partner than a romantic object. And many people might marry a woman who would be a good wife and mother, and only in time grew to have great affection towards each other. Love does not require an ongoing romanticism. That is quite novel and generally Western. Not entirely of course. But for ordinary working people the practical aspect was very often more important. A healthy, practical woman was more suitable a choice than a stunningly beautiful but practically useless woman. For thousands of years people have got on with the person they married by and large. Because there were not many choices to do otherwise. And in our Church we are not given many choices. It is necessary for us as Christians to get on with things.
Again, this doesn't answer the question directly. But what is a person looking for in a partner? Sometimes the most important things are no longer the things which have most focus. How do we resist the influence of Western anti-Christian culture and choose with God in mind?
Father Peter
[quote author=sodr2 link=topic=9601.msg118223#msg118223 date=1281988853]
[quote author=GODlovesme link=topic=9601.msg118222#msg118222 date=1281987207]
[quote author=kirollos3 link=topic=9601.msg118221#msg118221 date=1281986064]
so pick the right product.
seriously?? it's like we're being sold or something...
so youre saying its wrong to properly objectify women?
what i am saying is that contrary to most men's opinions, women do not like to be objectified. how would you feel if i said that when i look for a man, i am looking for the right kind of product, the one that does exactly what i want and doesn't talk back! and there is nothing proper about objectifying a woman. Good luck finding a woman who wants to be objectified by you...guaranteed you will not.
relax man i was joking ahahhahaah .. wow man
[quote author=kirollos3 link=topic=9601.msg118232#msg118232 date=1282006559]
relax man i was joking ahahhahaah .. wow man
i am a woman.
How long have you that had problem?
lol
Im kidding.
Thanks Fr. Peter, great response.
Zoxasi, Tell your friend NOT to get married! Monasticism is so much easier.
The single life is great.. isn't it? But as Fr. Peter said, Marriage is JUST as hard as monasticism.
I'm going to throw something here into the works, and see what happens:
I don't really think that someone CAN marry the wrong person. Its up to you, within marriage, to make the other person happy. You're never going to marry someone perfect. Nor are you perfect yourself.
Therefore, you need to go into marriage with the understanding that you need someone who will help you grow and edify you, and you yourself have to give a chance to edify the other person.
However, this REALLY all depends on one thing. If the person repents. If they appreciate their weaknesses. If they actually know their weak points. If you marry someone who does not recognise ANY of their faults, then this is a huge problem. I mean, even if they do not have as many problems as you, if they see themselves better than you, then you're going to have problems.
The relationship between man and woman can be associated with that between Man and God. Our relationship with God grows and is manifested when we approach God as sinners, not as righteous. If I approach God as a righteous person, with no problems, no fault, nothing, I am positioning myself at His Level. I'm lying basically.
I would recommend that my friend marries someone who is humble in spirit, and recognises and repents for her faults.
We live in a world , whether Egypt, Europe, or America, where a lot of youth do not see or recognise the difference between black and white. They cannot tell what is "CHRISTIAN" and what is "EGYPTIAN".
Purity of heart, body, spirit are foremost Christian attributes of behaviour. If I go around committing sexual immoral sins; that's fine - but do I repent for it? This is the problem. There is even justification of such sins, rather than the need for repentance. This is a worry.
So, I don't think anyone will marry someone "PERFECT" , nor a "SAINT" - but the idea is to marry someone, if you want a Christian, a GOOD CHRISTIAN, is someone who has repented. Someone who realises their wrong actions, and seeks God's Grace for edification, cleansing, justification and righteousness.
What do you all think? Did that make sense???
[quote author=GODlovesme link=topic=9601.msg118244#msg118244 date=1282019131]
[quote author=kirollos3 link=topic=9601.msg118232#msg118232 date=1282006559]
relax man i was joking ahahhahaah .. wow man
i am a woman.
How long have you that had problem?
lol
Im kidding.
Thanks Fr. Peter, great response.
first of all .. sorry did know that ..
second of all i was kidding .. you should be saying typing to show that you saw something funny .. for example a LOL or HAHAHA or HEHEHEHEH or even HHHHHHHHH
when i look to get married in like 8 or 9 years (im almost 16), im going to look for a wife here on tasbeha LOL.
How do you plan to do that? Pick the girl who has chosen the nicest icon for her profile?
Yeah, why not... but how would you know its really a girl you're speaking to? Anyone can say they are female on tasbeha.org.
Best guidelines: the Book of Proverbs.
Yeah, but how do you know a woman will be this as a wife? You'd have to live with her to find out and say "Hey... she's the Proverbs wife".
How can you tell that she will be this "ideal proverbs wife" after marriage? How can you tell ?
when i look to get married in like 8 or 9 years (im almost 16), im going to look for a wife here on tasbeha LOL.
very corny ... hahahahahha jk .. but ya leave the funny business for pavli
Example: If a woman dresses skimpy, and is lascivious in conduct, then guess what she will be so in marriage.
If a guy wanders with his eyes at other women, then after marriage he will be inclined towards extra-marital affairs.
If a person has a problem with alcohol before marriage, he/she will have worse after marriage.
I wasjoking about that, zoxasi.
Anyone can pretend to be a woman... but not anyone can be a woman.
...man, that was deep. I need a break. Im going to open a new thread
There are plenty of women, not too many ladies (anymore).
Anyone can pretend to be a lady, but not everyone can dress like one...
to answer the original question, as someone married > 10 years, the 2 questions we asked each other once we were already friends, and thinking of becoming engaged were: 1. how do u find out what is God's will for you, i.e. what do you think God wants you to do in the future and why?
2. where would you hope to be in 10 or 20 years, and what do you want to be doing?
these are important 'compatability' questions, not 'do u like sport?' or 'what perfume do u wear?'
before u get to this stage, i.e. when yr looking at yr friends sister after church (or brother, if u are a woman), see how she/he is with other people. is she/he kind and gentle? then talk to them like any other friend and see if that person shows the fruit of the Spirit. (galatians 5:22-23)
when i first met my husband, i was planning for us just to be friends, but he was a really interesting person so we discussed things like our family background, what our churches were like and our spiritual life. then we kept in touch and learnt more about each other before we got too serious.
zoxsasi, no-one i know changed after marriage. if they are always late before, they will be late for the wedding. if they are always joking before, they will joke after. if they drink before, they will drink after etc etc. so if u plan to get married, u should hang out with the other person enough (and ideally with their family/close friends) to get to know them. go food shopping together, go to church together, clean the old neighbours' house together, do routine stuff and you'll get to know each other.
there are 4 things i always tell single people:
1. make friends, usually yr spouse is a friend first. don't put pressure on these friendships, don't aim to look for a partner, but look for friends (men and women) and enjoy learning about God together in groups.
2. take care of yr boundaries. even that much younger/older person who u are sure sees u as just a brother/sister may be tempted and act in a surprising way. so always hang out in a group or somewhere where there are people (eg after church, in a shopping mall, at yr aunties' house while she's in the kitchen).
3. aim to be the best friend/husband/wife u can. take care of yr spiritual life, ask God to fill u with His Spirit so u show the fruits of the Spirit. married life, single life and monasticism are all hard, so the more u love God, the easier it will be to deal with the problems of life.
4. leave it to God, no-one has a right to get married or to have children. sounds harsh, but if u can accept the life yr living now, with all it's good parts and bad parts, you'll be able to accept the joys and struggles of marriage. if u are only happy when life is smooth, u should wait until u r more ready to get married ;)