Live Broadcasting from CTV - Pope Shenouda III--39th Anniversary

minatasgeel

Here: http://www.ustream.tv/channel/coptic-special-events#utm_campaigne=synclickback&source=http://dbebawy.wordpress.com/cse/&medium=2416979

you can view a live from CTV provided by David Bebawy of St. George & St. SHenouda, JC, NJ.

I think he'll keep the feed up for a while. Right now the ordination ceremony of His Holiness is on.

p

Did St. George's record it? Or just stream it?

hany58

It was amazing to see the pope supporting the chanting of hymns in Coptic & not in any other language. I personally think that we shouldn't say hymns in any other language than coptic.  ;D

Zoxsasi

[quote author=baladoos link=topic=9996.msg122236#msg122236 date=1289789029]
It was amazing to see the pope supporting the chanting of hymns in Coptic & not in any other language. I personally think that we shouldn't say hymns in any other language than coptic.  ;D


To be honest with you, I'm beginning to agree more and more with this.

Coptic isn't that hard.

Why doesn't someone produce a "Teach Yourself Coptic" language course??

For goodness sake, there's a teach yourself Esperanto!! Who cares about Esperanto!

peterfarrington

There are plenty of teach yourself Coptic books. I have a couple.

I would expect many Copts to want to learn some Coptic.

I still don't believe it is appropriate in the West as the major language, and that the major language should always be the local one.

Father Peter

Zoxsasi

[quote author=peterfarrington link=topic=9996.msg122257#msg122257 date=1289817449]
There are plenty of teach yourself Coptic books. I have a couple.

I would expect many Copts to want to learn some Coptic.

I still don't believe it is appropriate in the West as the major language, and that the major language should always be the local one.

Father Peter


Well, you know how I feel about that. Of course I agree. We should worship God with understanding, otherwise its just lip-service. We are not praying otherwise.

But the hymns unfortunately don't really sound that good when translated in English. Not just that, but Coptic isn't that hard. The sentence & verb constructions are quite basic even. I was just thinking that if there are teach yourself esperanto and other redundant languages, then why not coptic. Last week even I found an Assimil Teach yourself Hieroglyphics course!!! hahaha

We should teach ourselves Coptic anyway because just like the archeological students who wish to be able to read hieroglyphics, we should teach ourselves Coptic to understand more our hymnology. You know, the tasbeha, believe it or not, is the Bible put into really funky melodies. Not just that, but the tasbeha itself makes the associations between the symbolic meanings in the Old Testament with that in the New Testament.

Therefore, by learning Coptic, you can pick up very quickly the meaning. Furthermore, it is well known that memory is aided through music. I mean, if you wished to memorize Bible verses, its easier to put a melody on it rather than just memorize it without any melody.

Do you have a cassette system where they teach you Coptic then? Which one??

mabsoota

i would like to disagree with some of you;
learning coptic hymns is hard.
it really is.
:P

Zoxsasi

[quote author=mabsoota link=topic=9996.msg122259#msg122259 date=1289819777]
i would like to disagree with some of you;
learning coptic hymns is hard.
it really is.
:P


Well, I'm talking about hymns from the Tasbeha. The hymns in there are really easy to learn.

There's a nice hymn that isn't in the tasbeha - its called "Agios Athanatos Nainan" - it is sang on Bright Saturday (once a year). Its very easy to learn.

Try to get a tape of this.

The arabic sounds really funky.. i mean, you could literally breakdance to it - but the coptic version of Agios Athanatos Nainan is absolutely amazing.

If someone bothered to add musical instruments and remix it properly, i think there could be a market for such music. Its absolutely fantastic. Try it mabsoota. You have nothing to lose.

peterfarrington

Zoxasi, I entirely agree with you that many more people should learn some Coptic. This applies especially to Egyptians.

If the Lord grants me life and time then I will also learn more than I know presently. But I am already too busy to be able to use my English language, and I also want to learn some Syriac and Armenian to be able to study ancient theological texts.

I perhaps disagree a little about the use of the word archaeology. The Orthodox Tradition is a living one, and must be communocated in the language of the people in every time and place. The treasures must be 'revealed' so that they can be used. They are revealed by being translated into the language and music of those peoples who are becoming Orthodox in other places. What is required is what has always been done, that the translation preserve the meaning and substance and provide equivalence, and not been woodenly literal.

There are English, Spanish, Dutch, French, Italian etc etc Christians who have a poetic ability. There are likewise those natives of all these place around the world who should be able to take Coptic melodies and make them naturally satisfying to the local ear. Coptic and Middle Eastern music is not always naturally easy on the English ear - and I say this as someone who loves music and has been exposed to lots of different types of liturgical music. It is just a fact. If there are a few English people who are naturally attracted to Middle Eastern styles then they are exceptions to the rule.

But this only requires that melodies be adapted, not rejected. This only means that texts and melodies are edited together into appropriate English and other Western forms, not forced to fit the tune. Orthodox British Christians have been singing Orthodox hymns in Orthodox Western tunes for 1600 years. There is a great wealth of Coptic hymnology which will be unlocked for Western enquirers when and if there is an adaptation of both text and tune for ordinary Western ears.

The single mother, pushing two children down the High Street and wondering how she will feed them all week, will not be attracted by Middle Eastern chant, or by any requirement that she learn Coptic or any other language to understand the hymns. But she might benefit from an accessible form of the Coptic tune and simple but beautiful words.

Those who are ethnically Coptic should learn Coptic. It is part of their cultural heritage. It is always necessary that there be those who are skilled and knowledgeble to help in the process of making these hymns accessible to those outside Egypt and outside Orthodoxy. I dearly wish I knew someone who was gifted in both Coptic hymnody and Western forms of music.

Father Peter