› ›

Speaking in tounges: argument

deaconmark123deaconmark123
edited December 1969 in Random Issues
Me and my math teacher from the past are both having a problem about speaking in tounges. He is a penticostal Christian or something like that. And he tells me that saint Paul said to us that we can speak in tounges. He gave me the verses: 1 Corinthians 14:5 12:10 14:18. These basically say that saint Paul wanted us to speak in tounges and all that. How can I prove to him or support the fact that saint paul did not mean that and that he means something else, or what can I give him to change his mind about it and understand what I am saying. I am Coptic orthodox and I'm pretty sure that Abouna does not speak in tounges.

Forgive me if I ask to much, but can you please write your answers in a form so that I can show him directly and have him read it. Thank you

Pray for me, and all those in Egypt. Including our Muslim brothers and sisters

Comments

  • geomike
    Lol, he gave you 1 Corinth. 14 : 5. If you keep reading that chapter you will get to verse 26. Keep reading on from 26 till the end. The answer is clear and needs no explaining.
  • IoannesIoannes
    My friend told me this story about an Ethiopian Orthodox Priest. I believe this took place in Georgia, possibly in the Atlanta area. A pentecostal church had opened up close to the EOTC, the priest noticed fewer and fewer people were coming. He had asked several members of the congregation what had happened and they informed him that they had started visiting the church. So he decided to go have a look. He went in, and I am sure they seen him and thought it would be great to have a EOTC priest convert, another notch on their belt. So they told him he could speak in tongues, he said yes ok. They brought him up to the front of the congregation, and he began to speak in a foreign tongue. The place erupted with joy, most likely in affirmation of their belief and that an EOTC priest had in their eyes converted. He then asked if someone would translate what he had said, the preacher stepped up and began speaking on what the priest had said. The priest interrupted and said actually I was reciting Psalm 27 (I believe this was the Psalm) and I was reciting it in Ge'ez, the ancient language of our church. Dead silence. Then as calmly and quietly as he came, the priest left.

    1 Cor. 14:9,19,23 and 2 Tim 2:16 all speak against incoherant babbling in the church. The major problem with these peoples belief is they do not understand the historical context. Speaking in tongues is not babbling, the people are HEARING in their own language, as the scripture says. It is not to reinforce any belief or prophecy or anything like that. It was a means of spreading the gospel in a region with 14 different languages, enabling to spread rapidly, like it did.
  • deaconmark123deaconmark123
    Ioannes, if you could help me some more on this I would appreciate it. He tells me that when they speak in tounges it is a mystery that no one can understand. He says that they are speaking to God in a mysterious language. I will go back to him and find out more on what he is saying, but that is the gist of it. He tells me they are speaking to God in tounges, which is a mysterious language/gift given by God.
  • deaconmark123deaconmark123
    [quote author=geomike link=topic=10356.msg126129#msg126129 date=1294068163]
    Lol, he gave you 1 Corinth. 14 : 5. If you keep reading that chapter you will get to verse 26. Keep reading on from 26 till the end. The answer is clear and needs no explaining.


    Also geomike. Therefore if the whole church comes together in one place, and all speak with tongues, and there come in those who are uninformed or unbelievers, will they not say that you are out of your mind? 1 Corinth. 14:23-25 support their belief that speaking in tounges is correct.
  • peterfarringtonpeterfarrington
    deaconmark, it has never been the teaching of the Church that Pentecostal practices such as modern Pentecostals perform should have any place in the life of the Church.

    We do not need to trade scriptures because trading scriptures is not Orthodox, not Christian.

    We begin always and only with what the Church has always taught. And the Church has never taught this practice of speaking in tongues. This means that Pentecostalists are misunderstanding and misrepresenting the Bible.

    Can they show where any of these modern practices have ever had a place in the history of the Orthodox Church? They cannot. Therefore these practices are not Christian. This is without investigating the practices themselves which would even more clearly show that they are not Christian.

    The question you should ask is why should you accept his modern interpretation of the Bible, which is unsupported by the history of the Church, instead of the interpretation which all Christians have always accepted?

    Father Peter
  • yousiegtennisyousiegtennis
    .
  • IoannesIoannes
    Yes, I have had both charismatics and pentecostals tell me it is a language used so satan cannot understand what is being said. There exists no scripture to prove this, no church teaching, as Fr. Peter said, there is no proof. I recommend just dropping the subject, now I may be wrong but this is something I have recently come to understand better, people in general believe what they want, not what is true. When there is any discussion or debate both parties tend to become more entrenched in their views. As my good friend recently told me, nobody has ever said, I converted because of that argument. Even discussions to many people, especially charismatics and pentecostals, are arguments or what they view as an attack on their faith.

    I am unable to help you my friend, I fear I would only be enabling an argument that has no value. I apologize.
  • geomike
    [quote author=deaconmark123 link=topic=10356.msg126133#msg126133 date=1294074364]
    [quote author=geomike link=topic=10356.msg126129#msg126129 date=1294068163]
    Lol, he gave you 1 Corinth. 14 : 5. If you keep reading that chapter you will get to verse 26. Keep reading on from 26 till the end. The answer is clear and needs no explaining.


    Also geomike. Therefore if the whole church comes together in one place, and all speak with tongues, and there come in those who are uninformed or unbelievers, will they not say that you are out of your mind? 1 Corinth. 14:23-25 support their belief that speaking in tounges is correct.


    If you read 26 and on, it will say that if anyone speaks in a tongue but there is no interpreter then that person must bequiet.
  • anba bolaanba bola
    His Holiness sheds light on the issue in pg 137-150 of his book Comparative Theology. Link: http://www.orthodoxebooks.org/sites/default/files/pdfs/Comparative%20Theology%20-%20HH%20Pope%20Shenouda%20III.pdf

    The purpose of speaking in tongues is to either preach and others may hear it in their language (What happened in Pentecost), or were one speaks in tongues and another, who speaks the language of the people, interprets. Other than those cases there is the case where the spirit prays in tongues, but the person him/herself doesn't understand. In those cases one should stay silent and heed the words of St. Paul in 1 Corinthians 14:14-19:

    For if I pray in a tongue, my spirit prays, but my understanding is unfruitful. What is the conclusion then? I will pray with the spirit, and I will also pray with the understanding. I will sing with the spirit, and I will also sing with the understanding. Otherwise, if you bless with the spirit, how will he who occupies the place of the uninformed say “Amen” at your giving of thanks, since he does not understand what you say? For you indeed give thanks well, but the other is not edified. I thank my God I speak with tongues more than you all; yet in the church I would rather speak five words with my understanding, that I may teach others also, than ten thousand words in a tongue.


    So there is very little point to tongues in a church where all speak the same language anyway, and can all communicate without speaking in tongues. Remember the devil who could turn rods into snakes in Exodus, imitating the miracle performed by God through Aaron, can imitate that which can be used by God into deception. Because the speaking in tongues used in those churches, doesn't fall under any of the categories mentioned by St. Paul, I'd say that it is a work of the devil.

    I think the best thing to do right now, is to read the section on speaking in tongues in H.H.'s book.
Sign In or Register to comment.