What do you guys think is a reasonable age for marriage for both boys and girls ? and what is the acceptable range of age difference and why ? I want to hear answers mainly from girls because most boys don't care about age difference (I do)
I have been looking for a wife for more than one year now. I got busy with my career and only started looking for a wife after I had turned 30 yo. I realized at that time that I was so late because girls usaually marry way before that and even as early as 20 yo. This is a problem for me because I find it difficult for both partners to be 9-10 years apart. I really can't understand why do girls put marriage as their first priority after graduation ! why don't they try to do anything else with their career and start thinking about marriage after 25-26 for example ? well, I have to admit that boys are the ones who marry at 25-26 now which makes me regret waiting all that time :-[ Anyway, I am moving to the western world hoping to find my better half there (not an easy job though).
I know that many of you may consider this post as nonsense, but i hope to find other people who feel the same way.
PS: I am new to this forum but I believe this is coptic community in Egypt. If you guys are from any other country, please ignore my post .... lol
Comments
Get married in Egypt before you travel.
Most of the members live in Europe, Australia, or North America.
It will be even more difficult when you come to the Western World. It will be assumed that you are seeking out a woman for residency purposes.
Get married in Egypt before you travel.
If I have a decent job and my status is legal, such assumption will not be feasable, but yeah, I am hoping to get married in Egypt.
You are still very young, just be patient and do not feel rushed to just get married for the sake of being married. In my opinion marriage is the most important decision you will make in your life and you have to choose extremely wisely.
:o
but if u want a more serious answer, look here, it has been discussed a lot earlier this year.
if u don't want to read all the posts, read the ones by father peter; he's an orthodox priest and very wise:
http://tasbeha.org/content/community/index.php/topic,9601.0.html
the people on here are from many countries, usa, australia, west europe, egypt, arabian peninsula, egypt etc.
most of us are coptic, but there are others who either want to be coptic or who have different beliefs and just want to hang out with us.
when i was a teenager, i met this really nice, single 70 year old man who had spent his life as a missionary in south america. he came to the uk and met a lovely 59 year old divorced lady (her husband had left her for another woman) and they had a very happy marriage.
so there is no rush!
i have met people for whom a 8-10 year age gap was not a problem, but those i met who had an 18-20 year age gap had lots of problems (the men because they treated the women as their daughters and couldn't really share deep problems, and the women when the men got old and 'boring')!
but the main thing is to have a relationship with God, this is most beautiful and to look for His will for your life. serve Him and love Him above all else, and the rest will become clear.
(matthew 6 verse 33)
I personally believe that marriage should come after completing your education. I am not sure why girls are in such a rush to get married so early. A lot of people who marry young end up marrying the wrong person. In your early 20's you don't even know who you are or what you want from life. The person you might be attracted to at 20 is very different than the one you're attracted to when you are more mature and have learnt a few life lessons. It's much better to be around the same age so that you will be more compatible and can relate to each other more.
You are still very young, just be patient and do not feel rushed to just get married for the sake of being married. In my opinion marriage is the most important decision you will make in your life and you have to choose extremely wisely.
I agree with every single word you said but when I posted this topic, I thought I was mainly talking to people from Egypt where education generally ends at age 22.
Young ? well this is a relative word. When most girls marry before 25, then I can't consider myself young. Each time i travel outside Egypt I feel that I am "ok" being above 30 and single but in Egypt, the pressure is too much to handle. Not to mention that i am still virgin and everything else.
But before that focus on the PRIMARY. Prayer, reading the Bible, being Active in Church, just to name a few. This will help you so much in Getting closer to God which will get you closer to your future soulmate planned for you (triangle analogy).
I note that in your post you were referring to age gaps where the guy is older.
What do people think of a 7 year age gap where the women is older? Would most people find that unacceptable in Coptic culture? Would people think badly of me if a younger guy proposed and I would like to accept? Can anyone foresee any problems that could arise as a result of this age gap?
Just curious... ::)
By the way, a word of warning. As a woman, the later you leave it to get married, the harder it is to find a guy to marry. Then if you get desperate enough, it is easy to fall into the trap of marrying whoever is available, rather than someone who is compatible. So if you think, "right, I've lived my life now, I've traveled, met some amazing people, have a great job, now it's time to find THE ONE..." you may be too late!
There are other disadvantages to getting married later-it is easy to become very independent and set in your ways (and as a result, more selfish), which makes it harder to change and grow with your marriage partner.
But enough of the lecture now!
Can I have a guess how old you are? ;)
Scratch that..I was going to say 19 but I found you've already posted that you're 20. Pretty close! I used to hold very similar views when I was 20, some I regret, some I don't. Anyways God bless whatever decisions you take.
[quote author=GODlovesme link=topic=10366.msg126252#msg126252 date=1294160643]
Contrary to what most men think, not every woman's priority is marriage. Mine certainly isn't. I plan to do many things with my life before I get married, if I get married at all. For me as a young woman, when I think of the possibility of getting married, I could care less what age I got married at, preferably at age 30 or after (because again, contrary to what most men think, not all women want to have children)...but most women marry younger because it's better to have kids at a younger age (at about 24/25) rather than say at 30...the risk of having mentally disabled children gets higher as the woman ages. By about 30/35 I think the risk is at about 50%. For me personally, my age difference limit is 3 years...4 and 5 years is pushing it unless he is an amazing person. 10 years is a definite no-no (at least this is what I have heard from most of the girls I know). I feel that 10 years difference will make him like my dad...he'll be so much more mature. I suppose I look for different qualities in a man...while I look for intelligence and maturity, I do not want him to be so mature that he is like my father! I like the 2-3 year difference because then we are closer to each other's ages and we can relate to each other more.
LOL I will tell you this...I am not like any other girl in the world...I have VERY different views about life and marriage...so this is what I think...it definitely only represents my view, so the majority of girls might have a different opinion about this...hope it helped at least a little :)
What do people think of a 7 year age gap where the women is older?
I know a Coptic Orthodox Couple where the gap is 12 years. (the woman is older by 12 years!).
I would find that hard, but I dont think there is a rule/law about that. They seem very happy together, but I don't know their personal problems, or the problems such a large age gap could hold.
In terms of having babies - its easier if you are younger. No.. its no one's business his age. But I think everything should be reasonable.. I think 12 years is a lot for a man and a woman, where the woman is 12 years older. But strange enough, this is OK if it was the other way around - I wonder why??? I totally agree!! 110%.
But that applies to both men and women. That's why I was arguing that it is not right for a priest to tell someone coptic in the diaspora to wait until they have their degree and forget about "love" if they happen to be attracted to someone Coptic.
Its hard enough finding ANYONE coptic in the Diaspora, and then on top of it, you want to find someone the opposite sex, and someone you are compatible with!?? That's a LARGE order!! Again, you are totally correct. The priests in the CoC tend to shun off any person at 20 from getting married, expecting them to build their careers and futures first. But, the right person may come BEFORE you've finished your degree. I DONT UNDERSTAND WHAT IS WRONG WITH MARRYING SOMEONE IN YOUR POVERTY!!?????
What is wrong with that?????
Why does the CoC insist on you having a degree first to get married?? I totally agree.. that's another advantage of marrying young: you adapt to each other better.
I really feel the priest's advice towards their youth is filled with idealistic and impractical advice. Its not their business to tell someone to wait or not wait.
So, at 20, do you think your friends at school or University are "waiting"??? DOES THE PRIEST REALISE THIS?
Does he realise that whilst you are "waiting" to finish your degree, your colleagues at University are already sleeping around with each other, living together, finishing their degrees, and they may even get married.
So, you are already in a tough position (for being a Copt in the Diaspora), and to make it worse, they punish your life for not having a degree before you get married?? WHAT GOOD DOES A DEGREE DO FOR MARRIED LIFE!!!!???? You cannot predict when you'll meet the right person for you. Someone good for you, or compatible may come at an inconvenient time for your plans on travelling or studying.
This had been the practice for 1000 years.
Of course there were always those who married young, and even in foolish circumstances. But generally people waited until the potential husband had a settled employment and would be able to support his family.
This is not Coptic, it is not priestly, it is fairly normal social behaviour.
What has changed? The modern idea that no-one must wait for anything. The prevalence, until recently, of cheap credit. The provision of state funding for those who would not or could not work.
It seems entirely sensible to me for a person to wait until they are at least 20 to get married. There are many exceptions. But if someone is planning to go to university then they should wait until they have completed their studies before considering marriage. If they have got a full-time job at 18, are earning regular money and do not plan to study further, then an earlier marriage is more appropriate.
Father Peter
It was the normal practice in England for most people to wait to get married until they could support a family.
This had been the practice for 1000 years.
But this was OK as everyone played by the same rules. Sex outside marriage was not even allowed! Now, its expected.
So, being Coptic, your chance of finding someone Coptic is small. Getting along is smaller, and even falling in love is smaller still. Coptics don't marry Catholics or Protestants. Do they?
Your pool of choice is so limited. Therefore, I think it is wrong for a priest to be dissmissive of anyone who falls in love at 20 who is Coptic, with someone else Coptic.
Its for you! Your churches are going to be really empty in 20 years time! I hope you realise this!!
I agree, you should finish off your degree, do all these things, but it doesn't mean you should forget about a person whom you are interested in!
Do you actually realize what University Students actually do? DO u think they are waiting to get married? They are focused on their degrees, but they are going to be engaging in sexual intercourse throughout their entire period. Why don't they have sex after their courses?? Seems logical ? Doesn't it?? The only foolish circumstances for marriage is marrying someone out of despair or being forced into it. Maybe its not British Orthodox. But as a Coptic Orthodox Christian, I can assure you, if a girl is going to get married, a priest will ask her if the person she is interested in has finished his degree. Marriage is not always about Children! or sex! Its about living your life with someone whom you love and God blessing that relationship. What does a degree or finishing that have to do with it?
Why can't you get married before finishing your degree. Agreed, its wiser to wait (IF YOU CAN) until you finish it... but I know so many Copts that finished their studies whilst they were married - yes.. and they didn't have kids either.
Why must a Coptic Orthodox marry a Copt?
Interesting....
I like your style.
But please explain what u mean??
A lot of Coptic Priests won't baptise anyone for the sake of marriage.(Which i tend to agree with as well).
There is a large choice.
Father Peter
Why could a Copt not marry an Armenian, an Ethiopian, an Eritrean, an Indian, a Syrian, and probably a Greek, Russian, Serbian, Romanian, Bulgarian, Belorussian, Ukrainian, even a French or British Orthodox?
There is a large choice.
Father Peter
Excellent point...
But because most people don't speak Armenian, Ethiopian, Indian, Greek, Russian, Serb, or Romanian.
Yes, it would be good to meet Orthodox people who were of these denominations.. but, what's the likelyhood of that happening???
..marrying someone while you are in poverty is the most ridiculous thing I have ever heard in my life...
So poor people all over the world do not have the right to get married?
Marriage IS a sacrament! Its a HOLY sacrament. It should be open to rich and poor!! First, you are assuming that a degree is for everyone. Most of the billionaires in the world didn't even finish their degrees, and dont even have high school diplomas.
Its a route. But its not the only route. There are apprenticeships, work experience etc... a degree is NOT the only way. What you said is illogical. Well.. I'm not sure that 16 years is the right age to get married.. but that's simply because in the teen years, the person is not totally settled.
Im glad you posted this Godlovesme, you prove a very good point that I was trying to make:
That there are people (who think like u) that think that to get married, YOU NEED A DEGREE!!! See!??
That's living proof!!
So, even if a person is not academically inclined, he/she will end up wasting years of their life doing a degree to make some priest say "Yes.. he's a good boy.. he's finished his degree".
That's so illogical.
If a Copt makes no effort to enjoy fellowship with other Orthodox then the chance is smaller.
Father Peter
There are people from all those Orthodox Churches in London. They all speak English. The chance of meeting them, if a Copt makes an effort, is 100%
If a Copt makes no effort to enjoy fellowship with other Orthodox then the chance is smaller.
Father Peter
Oooo... I like that.. I'm all for it. Nice attitude. I wish other priests agreed with it also.
There's this brilliant Armenian Church where I live, and I went once, but I didnt understand the liturgy. But I agree, there's a LOT of things open to us if we really loved Orthodoxy!!
Well done. Good point Fr.
LOL I'M ILLOGICAL?? DUDE. We're living in the United States, maybe in France or wherever you are it's different. My cousin who just came from Egypt...he can barely find a job here...BECAUSE HE DOESN'T HAVE A DEGREE. Guess what? He's going back to school, even though he's not "academically inclined." And what? You're gonna work at McDonald's? Sure, that's a job. You won't be making enough money to support a family. What if you're trying to buy a house? Renting apartments is almost as expensive...what about food? What about the bills you have to pay? The higher the degree you have, the better you get paid, the better life your kids will have. My parents (it wasn't their fault) were struggling to make a living here and we the children suffered...why? Because they only had BA's from Egypt. They lived comfortably in Egypt but when they came here and their degrees wouldn't transfer, they had to look for something else. Guess what? My dad started working at a gas station and my mom started working at the 99 cent store...and my dad had to go back to school because he couldn't get a good paying job WITHOUT A HIGHER DEGREE! What don't you understand about you need a degree to be able to make enough money to open up a family? And what if you have kids, what are you going to tell them? "I didn't go to school, but you have to habiby/habibty, it's good for you." What kind of an example is that??
I'm not saying that a degree is bad for you. I'm sure its helpful having one. However, you cannot expect people who are non academic, yet hardworking to have a degree.
Its a route.
And so what if you are poor??
There are a wide variety of Orthodox Churches in London. Even within our own communion. There is no reason why the youth should not organise pan-Orthodox meetings for youth. I'd prefer it than Orthodox going to Protestant churches.
The Ethiopian Orthodox priests all speak English and are actually converts. The Eritrean priest in south London is a dear man. The Indian Orthodox bishop and his priests speak English, indeed the bishop has been a seminary principal in India, and of course Father Vahan, the Primate of the Armenian Orthodox in the UK, was the principal of St Nersess' Seminary in the US and he is a Biblical scholar.
Father Peter
If you are nonacademic but hardworking, that doesn't change the fact that you won't be making enough money to support a family.
There's nothing wrong with being poor...just having a family when you are poor is extremely difficult.
OK
Let's say u have a degree and you lose your job...what then? Do u divorce your wife and put your kids on hold?
We have to learn to give thanks to God for everything and use what we have.
That's it.
Do u know how hard it is living without ONE arm? Its VERY hard. But those who have one arm have pulled through.
We are not talking about people with a lower paid job. We are talking about people who are poor. There are plenty of people with lower paid jobs who cope. But it is not wise to begin married life in poverty.
The UK Government ambition was for at least 50% of young people to go to university to keep the unemployment figures down. All it has caused is massive debts for everyone, the introduction of pointless degrees, and unemployment for those who have not been able to obtain a degree that employers value.
Better by far to have a smaller number of university students properly funded, and the majority to go through further education by way of on the job training, apprenticeships etc etc so that they learn a trade and start in full time employment. I am not obsessed with people getting degrees by any means. A great many are a waste of time and effort and merely a cause of debt. But if someone has started any course of training or education, at whatever level, I believe it is best to concentrate on completing that course before getting married.
Father Peter