[quote author=ilovesaintmark link=topic=9546.msg117828#msg117828 date=1281471720] Human, we are.
I want to share with you all a story about what happened to me once. I prefer to give examples - because it is easier that way.
I was the head prefect at school. So the school asked me to be a volunteer for their open day. You know, to show students around, show them the cafeteria, the language department, the science department.
We were briefed that we HAD to show the students (the new prospective students) the science rooms at the end of the tour as the science department were showing off their lab equipment with demos.
On this one tour, I had a group of around 30 kids.. I'm walking with them, explaining everything.. until we come to the science floor. The science rooms are at the end of this REALLY long hallway.
I had 30 students: 5 in front, and 25 behind me.
I said to the 5 in front: "OK.. you need to walk straight ahead and see the science labs". Instead of going in the door in front of them, they took the door on the right (which was the staircase towards the exit).
I stood at the door of the staircase and told them "Listen! We haven't finished our tour yet. You need to go to the science labs". They said: "Oh no.. we are tired, we want to go now". I said "But I cannot let you go in the building alone, un monitored".
So the 25 students behind me said: "Let's go also. Its OK"
So they followed me.
We went downstairs, and I escorted them to the entrance outside. When I came back in.. the science teacher grabbed me, and started SCREAMING at me.
"YOU ARE WASTING our TIME!" "WE WERE DOING LAB DEMOS AND YOU LET THE STUDENTS LEAVE WITHOUT COMING INTO OUR ROOMS"
I said.. "No that's not true.".
He said: "DONT LIE!! I SAW YOU GOING DOWN THE EXIT AND THE STUDENTS FOLLOWING YOU!!!"
Even what he had seen was incorrect because it didnt have the explanation attached to it. He had partial truth, not the complete truth. He didnt see me go down the stairs to CALL BACK the 5 students. Did he? So what he did see, it was even incorrect!!! His eyes saw one thing, yet his brain interpreted something else.
This brings to light MANY points:
When we argue with the evangelicals or non denominational Christians, I feel this is what is happening: they are reading the Bible without interpretation, without the footnotes of the apostles and coming to their own conclusions. They didnt have the humility to ask anyone if their understanding is correct. What they read, is what they judge the Bible on. So, reading the Bible without the correct interpretation from the WITNESSES of those who LIVED what you are reading is REALLY DANGEROUS!!!!
Secondly, concerning judgement... this teacher not only misjudged my actions, but also punished me for it. That's the same treatment the priest does. He shouts at you. So, you've already been punished. Even if you explain what happened, and he is corrected, then you've still been unfairly punished.
Im not talking about judging like this. Im not even thinking to myself anything bad about this particular teacher. Im grateful for this lesson as it has shown me HOW to be patient when judging others. How not to attack them. How to give people the benefit of the doubt.
But, even if you give others the benefit of the doubt, ultimately, there are things that are clearly wrong. Joking in the altar is wrong. There is no excuse for it. If it was talking in Church, sure.. i could give the person the benefit of the doubt.. in fact, if they speak quietly enough, what do I care?? I won't even tell them anything.. it doesnt concern me.
But joking around? During the consecration of the Bread and Wine?? "Bow to God in Fear and Reverence" and you are joking around. I cannot find an excuse for that. It is beyond me.
I have been on both sides of the story (anecdote) that you rendered. I have passed judgment (unjustly) and I have also been judged (unjustly). There is a fine line in having to make the call.
I think Fr. Peter's guidelines and thoughts are very sage.
I sent you a PM with the breadth of my thoughts on the matter.
Comments
Human, we are.
I want to share with you all a story about what happened to me once. I prefer to give examples - because it is easier that way.
I was the head prefect at school. So the school asked me to be a volunteer for their open day. You know, to show students around, show them the cafeteria, the language department, the science department.
We were briefed that we HAD to show the students (the new prospective students) the science rooms at the end of the tour as the science department were showing off their lab equipment with demos.
On this one tour, I had a group of around 30 kids.. I'm walking with them, explaining everything.. until we come to the science floor.
The science rooms are at the end of this REALLY long hallway.
I had 30 students: 5 in front, and 25 behind me.
I said to the 5 in front: "OK.. you need to walk straight ahead and see the science labs". Instead of going in the door in front of them, they took the door on the right (which was the staircase towards the exit).
I stood at the door of the staircase and told them "Listen! We haven't finished our tour yet. You need to go to the science labs".
They said: "Oh no.. we are tired, we want to go now".
I said "But I cannot let you go in the building alone, un monitored".
So the 25 students behind me said: "Let's go also. Its OK"
So they followed me.
We went downstairs, and I escorted them to the entrance outside. When I came back in.. the science teacher grabbed me, and started SCREAMING at me.
"YOU ARE WASTING our TIME!"
"WE WERE DOING LAB DEMOS AND YOU LET THE STUDENTS LEAVE WITHOUT COMING INTO OUR ROOMS"
I said.. "No that's not true.".
He said: "DONT LIE!! I SAW YOU GOING DOWN THE EXIT AND THE STUDENTS FOLLOWING YOU!!!"
Even what he had seen was incorrect because it didnt have the explanation attached to it. He had partial truth, not the complete truth. He didnt see me go down the stairs to CALL BACK the 5 students. Did he? So what he did see, it was even incorrect!!! His eyes saw one thing, yet his brain interpreted something else.
This brings to light MANY points:
When we argue with the evangelicals or non denominational Christians, I feel this is what is happening: they are reading the Bible without interpretation, without the footnotes of the apostles and coming to their own conclusions. They didnt have the humility to ask anyone if their understanding is correct. What they read, is what they judge the Bible on. So, reading the Bible without the correct interpretation from the WITNESSES of those who LIVED what you are reading is REALLY DANGEROUS!!!!
Secondly, concerning judgement... this teacher not only misjudged my actions, but also punished me for it. That's the same treatment the priest does. He shouts at you. So, you've already been punished. Even if you explain what happened, and he is corrected, then you've still been unfairly punished.
Im not talking about judging like this. Im not even thinking to myself anything bad about this particular teacher. Im grateful for this lesson as it has shown me HOW to be patient when judging others. How not to attack them. How to give people the benefit of the doubt.
But, even if you give others the benefit of the doubt, ultimately, there are things that are clearly wrong. Joking in the altar is wrong. There is no excuse for it. If it was talking in Church, sure.. i could give the person the benefit of the doubt.. in fact, if they speak quietly enough, what do I care?? I won't even tell them anything.. it doesnt concern me.
But joking around? During the consecration of the Bread and Wine?? "Bow to God in Fear and Reverence" and you are joking around. I cannot find an excuse for that. It is beyond me.
What is a head prefect?
Oh sorry, I didnt think you said anything bad.. i don't know why I ended up quoting your statement.. i wasn't responding to u.
What do you think about the story though?
Head prefect?? Its like the head student. its the student in Charge of other students.
I think Fr. Peter's guidelines and thoughts are very sage.
I sent you a PM with the breadth of my thoughts on the matter.