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Is it ok to use your iPhone in Church?

ZoxsasiZoxsasi
edited December 2010 in Faith Issues
Hi,

Its been bothering me a few days now, and I'm at wits end to know whether this is right or wrong.

I go to a Church where all the Bible readings are in Arabic. I don't understand much Arabic.

Anyway, I got this really good iPhone app called "iCoptic" that has all the Bible readings and Synaxarium readings clearly produced.

So, last week, I was sitting down, during the readings, going through iCoptic App, reading the Bible verses as the deacon was reading the passage in Arabic.

Frankly speaking, it was worth it. I'd have sat down like a sack of potatoes had it not been for this iPhone App, NOR the Bible App on the iPhone.

But - it looks bad though - doesn't it? Using your iphone in Church. People stare at you and think you are rude for playing with your iPhone during a liturgy. But, I don't know what to do... its just so convenient.

For example. During last's week's Bible reading, I was using iCoptic to read the translation. Then during the reading of the Bible, I had a few questions I wanted to ask on Tasbeha.org concerning the Bible reading. So, I opened another Bible App and highlighted the verses that I wanted to keep a record of.

Its great.

This particular Bible app cross references everything with everything. I think it was free even. It was just amazing.

Let's say you are reading the Bible, and you find a phrase like "Filled with the Holy Spirit". This app will give you (automatically) EVERY SINGLE Bible verse with that same phrase or similar phrase.

Anyway, i find myself looking at my iPhone a LOT during the Bible readings - and even if its in English, its hardly very clear, so I like to use the iPhone app anyway.

Is this bad? Should I not do this? Should I sit down like a div and pretend i'm following the Bible readings, or is it OK to use my iPhone as a Bible app and follow what is being read; and if anyone judges me, let them judge me.

Also, I'd like to know one small thing. What is stopping ANY deacon with an iPhone from using his iCoptic App to read the Bible from it during the Bible Reading?

So let's say I'm a deacon, and someone tells me IN THE LAST MINUTE, please can you read the Catholikon. Rather than fumble through which passage I ought to read, and find the right page - why can I not just pull out my trendy iPhone 4.0 with its retina display, launch iCoptic and read the passage from there??
What's wrong with that?


Thanks
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Comments

  • sherrymikhail04sherrymikhail04
    I think its okay to use your iPhone to read the readings as it is said... who said it's wrong to do whatever you can to understand what's going on? In fact, I think it's SO important to know what the Gospel read is about every time you go to the Liturgy, no matter how much you go through to understand.
    Seriously, who cares what others think of you when you have your iPhone out listening to the Gospel... People, especially  Egyptians need to learn not to look at others but themselves more particularly in a church service. What are they gonna do to you? Nothing... so who cares?! As long as you're honest with yourself and God.
    If you feel that you care about others looking at you and what not, why not get a book with all the readings like a lot of people do?
    I would rather use the iPhone for convenience and the whole referencing thing that you mentioned, if it's easier for you than do it.

    Cheers
  • confused_sinner
    I am sure that this is not what you are looking for but just my biased opinion as abouna has drilled the concept into us and took extreme measures towards enforcing it.

    I don't think you should use your phone simply for the sake of the younger generation. They don't know and cant see what you are doing and will automatically use it as an excuse to text/play/make calls etc. during church. There is already a huge problem with that among our youth nowadays. Seeing an older person, possibly a servant, deacon or model for them using their phone will only give them more reasons to continue with that behavior thinking its absolutely right since you are doing it or any other. I am specifically reminded of the verse that says something along the lines that if you make any one of these little ones stumble, a stone will be tied around your neck and then be thrown into the sea. That's harsh and a risk I personally wouldn't be willing to take. Its totally up to you though! :)

    Please pray for my faith.
  • ZoxsasiZoxsasi
    [quote author=Mikhail™ link=topic=10187.msg124461#msg124461 date=1292324051]
    I think its okay to use your iPhone to read the readings as it is said... who said it's wrong to do whatever you can to understand what's going on? In fact, I think it's SO important to know what the Gospel read is about every time you go to the Liturgy, no matter how much you go through to understand.
    Seriously, who cares what others think of you when you have your iPhone out listening to the Gospel... People, especially  Egyptians need to learn not to look at others but themselves more particularly in a church service. What are they gonna do to you? Nothing... so who cares?! As long as you're honest with yourself and God.
    If you feel that you care about others looking at you and what not, why not get a book with all the readings like a lot of people do?
    I would rather use the iPhone for convenience and the whole referencing thing that you mentioned, if it's easier for you than do it.

    Cheers


    We did this thing with a book, but the books keep on getting lost and then how on earth do you follow the synaxarium, the Bible readings, and everything else.

    Look, would the person who built the iCoptic app kindly build something similar for the mass?

    We need an app for the Liturgy - call it iLiturgy, or call it iZOXSASI

    Because there are no books in this Church. I want to follow the mass also. I need an app that has the Liturgy of Saint Basil, Saint Gregory, Saint Kyrelloss in there; in English, Coptic and Coptic transliteration (where there are hymns).

    Is that OK?

    [quote author=JoyfulinHim link=topic=10187.msg124462#msg124462 date=1292324362]

    I don't think you should use your phone simply for the sake of the younger generation. They don't know and cant see what you are doing and will automatically use it as an excuse to text/play/make calls etc. during church.


    You are quite right. That's why I created this thread. This section deals with Moral Issues. That's why I posted this question here.
    But what can I do? Maybe if they saw me using my phone as an Electronic Book where I could pray and read the Bible and follow the liturgy then that could be also a good example for them: Phones and Computers ARENT JUST for games. they can be useful tools also that edify us.

    That is something they should learn also!


    There is already a huge problem with that among our youth nowadays. Seeing an older person, possibly a servant, deacon or model for them using their phone will only give them more reasons to continue with that behavior thinking its absolutely right since you are doing it or any other. I am specifically reminded of the verse that says something along the lines that if you make any one of these little ones stumble, a stone will be tied around your neck and then be thrown into the sea. That's harsh and a risk I personally wouldn't be willing to take. Its totally up to you though! :)

    Please pray for my faith.

    Yes, you have a point. But I think (IMHO) that we could make them stumble IF we end up playing on our iPhones during the liturgy instead of using the E-Book functionality an iPhone provides.

    See.. im really lost in this subject.

    So, I should not use the resources I have available to me JUST in case someone mis-interprets what I am doing and they stumble?

    Well, I'm a sinner. Why shouldn't I apply what you are saying to the point of killing myself or living in a cave so I don't make kids stumble at the SLIGHTEST chance they could see me or be influenced by me sinning.

  • confused_sinner
    As I mentioned, its your choice. I wouldn't.
    I am sure others would be better fit to answer your question.

    There is also a different scope of things where you can cause another to sin by jealousy or cause hurt feelings or whatever for having a good phone, or somebody is too poor  to afford it or something. However, that can be applied to everything.. clothing, shoes etc.
  • abanoub2000abanoub2000
    If it weren't for Iphones my church wouldn't function properly.

    We have an iphone that runs our projection system

    An iphone to watch and make sure the broadcasting system works

    And there is a deacon with an iphone texting the tech guys telling them when there is a problem with the mic (which is almost always)

    and last week the deacon sitting next to me was reading the catholic epistle in english using his cell phone.

    I think you SHOULD use your iphone.... It's not like you're playing with it, you just want to hear god's word in your own language!

    God Bless Fancy Cell Phones
  • ZoxsasiZoxsasi
    [quote author=abanoub2000 link=topic=10187.msg124466#msg124466 date=1292327233]
    If it weren't for Iphones my church wouldn't function properly.

    We have an iphone that runs our projection system

    An iphone to watch and make sure the broadcasting system works

    And there is a deacon with an iphone texting the tech guys telling them when there is a problem with the mic (which is almost always)

    and last week the deacon sitting next to me was reading the catholic epistle in english using his cell phone.

    I think you SHOULD use your iphone.... It's not like you're playing with it, you just want to hear god's word in your own language!

    God Bless Fancy Cell Phones


    Lol,

    We are doing more than this.

    We're pioneering new stuff on iPhones right now.

    Wouldn't it be cool if Abouna used an Iphone to read the vespers?

    Wouldn't singing the tasbeha from an iphone be so cool.. you wouldnt need to fumble through 100's of pages to find the part you wanted. In certain periods, the tasbeha isn't straight forward.. you start at one point, you skip another hymn, you go to another hymn and after that hymn, you go straight to the end of the Psalmody and sing something from there.

    I really think iPhones have a place in worship.

    JoyfulHim:

    I would agree with Abanoub2000 on this:

    THE BEST example for kids is for them is to see you using your iPhone for stuff OTHER than games and texting messages. Its extremely useful. This will help them see technology in a different light - not just for wasting time, but for helping them with the time they have.

    They have 10000's of examples of how an iPhone can be used to waste time, but they have NO example of how it is used to help them save time and use it in constructive ways.
  • confused_sinner
    [quote author=Zoxsasi link=topic=10187.msg124468#msg124468 date=1292327663]
    JoyfulHim:

    I would agree with Abanoub2000 on this:

    THE BEST example for kids is for them is to see you using your iPhone for stuff OTHER than games and texting messages. Its extremely useful. This will help them see technology in a different light - not just for wasting time, but for helping them with the time they have.

    They have 10000's of examples of how an iPhone can be used to waste time, but they have NO example of how it is used to help them save time and use it in constructive ways.


    I am not disagreeing with you in regards that they need examples of constructive ways to use technology. However, I am not too sure if presenting these examples during church is necessary.Technology sometimes creates  a distraction, causing more harm than good (hence the picture Abanoub created. Are all those people running those things able to pray? -prayer is more important than service). The majority of churches already have screens anyways. (which is an entirely different discussion..)
    Again this is just my opinion about the subject, I may be wrong and open for correction for my benefit. I honestly have not thought about it enough and regret making a post on the topic. 

    Forgive me, I know my thoughts are scattered and possibly make no sense but be kind please, not much sleep :-\
  • ZoxsasiZoxsasi
    [quote author=JoyfulinHim link=topic=10187.msg124469#msg124469 date=1292329108]
    Technology sometimes creates  a distraction, causing more harm than good (hence the picture Abanoub created. Are all those people running those things able to pray? -prayer is more important than service). The majority of churches already have screens anyways. (which is an entirely different discussion..)
    Again this is just my opinion about the subject, I may be wrong and open for correction for my benefit. I honestly have not thought about it enough and regret making a post on the topic. 

    Forgive me, I know my thoughts are scattered and possibly make no sense but be kind please, not much sleep :-\



    No.. you have excellent points Joyful. I cannot really disagree with you either.

    Right now, I see using an iPhone app during the Bible readings as the ONLY way to understand the readings. But i'm asking also for a liturgical app that can help me follow the liturgy. I need this.

    Perhaps we can argue that using such an app during the bible readings is OK because during the reading, we should be doing our best to understand what is being said.

    But if an app did exist of the liturgy, I would definately use it. We have no other choice. My mind wanders when I do not understand what is being said.

    Let's see what fr. Peter has to say.

  • peterfarringtonpeterfarrington
    You're not going to like my opinion.  :)

    I don't like any technology in Church.

    I don't like TV or projector screens in Church during the liturgy.

    I prefer books in Church. I would not ever read from a smart phone in Church unless there was some emergency. I happen to agree with the poster who says that there is already a problem with young people using phones in Church and they don't need encouraging.

    If someone wanted to take sermon notes I'd prefer they used a notebook (paper) and pen. But in any case the Liturgy is not a lecture. There are other times when systematic study should take place and where study aids are more appropriate.

    I said you were not going to like my opinion!  :)

    The issue of comprehensibility in the Liturgy is a different one I think. And very important. And I am not criticising your own use of an I-Phone in your own circumstances. But generally speaking I believe that technology is a distraction. I am not even really in favour of videos of liturgies. My own opinion is that the liturgy is to be participated in, not watched at second-hand, and then commented on as if it was a performance. Not so long ago a non-Orthodox would not even be allowed to be present during the Liturgy, but now we make everything visible to everyone around the world. There is much to be said for the spiritual tradition of the Church being passed on in an oral and personal manner from master to disciple.

    Don't think I am anti-technology. I.T. is my day job. But I am not convinced that technology has a place in the liturgy.

    Father Peter
  • ZoxsasiZoxsasi
    Hiya

    But is it wrong what I've done? Using the iPhone to read the Bible during the Liturgy? Otherwise, i'd have no clue as to what is being said??

    Also, what do u think about Abanoub's Church where their entire service is IT based?

    Thanks
  • ilovesaintmarkilovesaintmark
    Fr. Peter,

    I agree with you wholeheartedly.  I could not have said it better.

    All of these things are distractions.  They do not at all help in worship.

    Do you kiss the iPhone after you read from it?

    The churches that have adopted these things, think they have helped, when in fact they have caused considerable harm.

  • peterfarringtonpeterfarrington
    Zoxasi, I did say that I was not criticising your using the I-phone to read the lections in English. That is an issue to do with lack of resources to help comprehension in that particular church.

    But in my own Church, I don't forsee a situation where I would use technology at all. I really haven't liked TV screens in Church since Protestants started adding them. And I don't see, as my own opinion, how they improve concentration on the Liturgy. Other priests and bishops may have other opinions.

    It does seem to me, however, (even though there is certainly a place for technology in other aspects of our Christian lives - I am using a computer and the internet now for instance), that the means used over the past two thousand years have a significance and a value.

    Father Peter
  • ilovesaintmarkilovesaintmark
    Fr. Peter,

    Your words are so true and sacred.

    I also wonder:  are those people in the production rooms praying?  Are they losing out on their day of worship?

    Can you worship while pushing a keyboard? or for that matter moving a camera around?

    We survived 2000 years not because of the Tech. infection but because of faith, works, witness, and the Grace and Mercy of God.  Discipleship is a key point towards developing spiritually.

    A computer cannot be a mentor.
  • ZoxsasiZoxsasi
    [quote author=Father Peter link=topic=10187.msg124476#msg124476 date=1292343225]
    Zoxasi, I did say that I was not criticising your using the I-phone to read the lections in English. That is an issue to do with lack of resources to help comprehension in that particular church.


    No no.. I know you are not criticising me. Please stop being apologetic :) - don't worry.
    I mean:

    Is it BAD what I've done?


    But in my own Church, I don't forsee a situation where I would use technology at all. I really haven't liked TV screens in Church since Protestants started adding them.

    Wow.. so you don't like protestants? So, if protestants haven't added them, would you have been OK with it?


    And I don't see, as my own opinion, how they improve concentration on the Liturgy. Other priests and bishops may have other opinions.

    Well... let's take a church like Saint George's in Stevenage.

    They have two 50 inch plasma screens there.

    I did find it useful when we were lacking books and the words were up on the screens.

    But does it distract you from prayer? If you are praying and admiring the 50" plasma screen with HD and boom blast sound technology with HF fast-switch high contrast ratio display, then that's a distraction.


    It does seem to me, however, (even though there is certainly a place for technology in other aspects of our Christian lives - I am using a computer and the internet now for instance), that the means used over the past two thousand years have a significance and a value.

    Father Peter


    Yeah, but is what i've done wrong?? I really need to know.

    Because, the way it looks is this: It seems i'm going to have to take my iPhone with me to Church from now on!!

    [quote author=ilovesaintmark link=topic=10187.msg124478#msg124478 date=1292345059]
    Your words are so true and sacred.


    Thanks.


    I also wonder:  are those people in the production rooms praying?  Are they losing out on their day of worship?

    No.. they are not praying. They're fumbling through their powerpoint presentations.. but that's because they are inefficient in using IT.


    Can you worship while pushing a keyboard? or for that matter moving a camera around?

    I can pray whilst driving a car.

    But i doubt you can pray whilst taking a video. That's because your mind is focused on the object of your video, and not the subject of the video.


    We survived 2000 years not because of the Tech. infection but because of faith, works, witness, and the Grace and Mercy of God.  Discipleship is a key point towards developing spiritually.

    A computer cannot be a mentor.

    ILSM,

    We really need to start using technology better. For there to be still people in the world who think we are MONOphysite, this is a disgrace!!

    Why aren't we propagating information efficiently?

    I think we are behaving in a very self-righteous fashion here. Both of your attitudes remind me of the American couple whose daughter was dying and she needed a blood transfusion. Rather than allow her to have the surgery, they said "no! We are Christian! God will save her!" - so, they prayed and prayed, and she died. (im sure you heard of this story.. they are now being sued for manslaughter).

    When God fed 5000 men with 2 fish and 5 loaves of bread, Pizza delivery angels didn't come from heaven and feed them. Christ used what resources He had available to Him!!! He didn't send angels from heaven with freshly baked bread, nor did He create something from nothing to feed the multitudes.

    To some extent , I agree with Fr. Peter and yourself, but I hate fanatism, and there is a sense of that in both of your perpectives.

    If YOU CAN pray using technology, why not use it? Because without it, I AM NOT PRAYING!!!

    As for



    Do you kiss the iPhone after you've read the Bible on it

    YES!!!!!

    OF COURSE!! Because we kiss what it represents.

    I kiss the iPhone when I see a picture of someone I love on there. Its the answer we give to protestants who accuse us of worshipping icons. We tell them "We don't worship it, but we respect what it represents. We don't worship the image of the icon and pray to it... but what the Icon represents is what is Holy".

    Like, if you see your son's photo on the iPhone.. don't you kiss it?? Are you kissing the Apple (TM) Retina Display? Are you kissing the small pixels that make up your son's face?? but rather, you are kissing what the image represents.

  • peterfarringtonpeterfarrington
    Maybe I am a fanatic?

    I don't see how though. I have barely begun to live the Christian life as it should be and most of my efforts are diminished because of my laziness.

    But I do know that for 2000 years Orthodox Christians have worshipped fine without videos, TV monitors, loudspeakers, microphones, texting, etc etc. I also know that technology is a distraction in most areas of life. How many homes have a TV playing in the background all the time with the excuse that it is good for documentaries and the news? How many youth use I-phones all the time but have no knowledge of the authentic teachings of the Church because they don't ever read anything? It is the case that at first there were many text based websites that youth visited, then audio was added and they prefered to receive information by audio, now there is You-tube and the youth have to have everything in a video or it is too much effort. (I am generalising, but I know a lot of youth, both Christian and non-Christian). The youth are finding it harder to stand and be attentive, to concentrate on the liturgy and participate in it. To be silent and to be still. What we need is less efficiency and greater attention. "Wisdom! Let us attend".

    If you want to know if what you have done is bad then you should ask your own spiritual father I guess. I have given my own opinion. There will be no technology in my Church.

    It doesn't matter that Protestants used TV screens first, but the reasons they used them are deficient, and they have turned many church buildings into places to hold the equivalent of seminars and self-improvement courses. I do not want to see our own churches following the same route. I don't know the reason why any particular Coptic churches use technology and so it is up to all those priests and bishops who authorise it to be responsible for it. I am only responsible for my opinions and my own congregation.

    My preference is always for simplicity and spirituality. Of course this does not mean that these are absent in technologically advanced congregations. But we have worshipped without these aids for centuries. Clergy and deacons have been heard in large churches without microphones. And liturgies have been participated in without the words ever being in front of people. Indeed this need for the words is a very modern and recent situation. When I was in Constantinople for the enthronment of Patriarch Mesrob II, I told him that I was impressed that his deacons used no service books but knew the liturgy off by heart. He looked at me rather as if I were strange and said, 'But of course they know the service by heart! They would not be allowed to serve as a deacon if they did not'.

    Our fathers knew the words off by heart. Of the scriptures, of the hymns, of the services. And thus they passed on this personalised and internalised knowledge to their disciples. But first of all we needed books to keep up, and now we have to have the words scrolling in front of us because we cannot even manage to turn the pages correctly. Lol!  :)

    What next! Liturgy by video conference? We have several monitors with the heads of various deacons and priests who are all back at home because it is more efficient to cut out the commute to Church? Lol! One thing all Copts should surely know is that we are extravagant in our sacrifice of time to God. We don't look at our watches. We start at the beginning and we work our way reverently through the prayers until we reach the end and the time doesn't matter. Why do we need to be more efficient? For whose benefit?

    I could never kiss a gadget. A gadget does not become sanctified by use. Has the I-phone been blessed to be the source of the lections in Church? Is it censed? If not then it should not be used. The lection books we use are hallowed by years of use and years of prayer. They become more than a medium. They become divinised. They become sanctified. What happens in a year or two when you get a new version of the I-Phone. What do you do with the old one that you used for the lections in Church? Do you just throw it away? And in regard to finding it easier as a deacon I am confused. In my own Church we have the Katamarous for Sunday Readings, as well as the other volumes. One of the servants turns to the correct Sunday and all of the readings are there for us. There are occasions when I will ask a visiting Christian to read a lection and all he has to do is approach the lectern and the reading is there ready for him.

    These are my opinions. Perhaps I am a fanatic.

    Father Peter
  • TITLTITL
    I love you, Father Peter.
  • ilovesaintmarkilovesaintmark
    I love Fr. Peter also.  He is a voice in the wilderness (the internet) crying out to prepare the way of the Lord.  I thought I would get that little Advent metaphor into the mix.
  • minatasgeelminatasgeel
    this gonna be hard to believe for those who know me in my church.......but i actually agree fully with what Fr. Peter said. why is it hard for me to say this? because i am one of the servants who is responsible for these things in my church. to see what i mean, lets consider these 2 general scenarios:

    Sunday:
    we do 2 liturgies:
    upstairs in the big church (with 2 huge screens with projectors and a camera system connected with a control room in the back of church where someone in mixing and broadcasting--the video/audio broadcast you get here on the site every sunday).
    downstairs: the church is small (only 2 65-in screens set into the iconistesis).
    things we have to do: set up laptop downstairs with ppts (we have our own ppts :) ) to be shown and one of the deacons just takes care of it for the rest of the liturgy. that is also the same upstairs. except we also have to have one person to be in the controlroom braodcasting. for that, we alternate weekly.
    Problems: all the little kids (and many of the older ones) want to CLICK THE BUTTON ......
    guys who help us broadcast find the simplest reasons to just get out of church and go to the controlroom.
    whoever is changing the slides is simply not praying.....he can't pray freely and in the same time keep his eyes on the pc.

    An exception: the only exception that still gives me reason to do what i do is the fact that some times it's just good for the people; those who are in the congregation praying who hve the choice to look at the screen for the text or simply don't and pray.

    now on a weekday liturgy, which is normally a little faster, we don't deal with this. I personally don't set a laptop except if abouna asks to. we let things just flow while we pray. actually if i am serving inside the altar by myself or maybe another deacon, i try not to even use a book.....it's better that way when you just stand in the sanctuary, nothing on your mind except GOD.
  • ilovesaintmarkilovesaintmark
    Mina, you're the man.

    They should name a saint after you.
  • TITLTITL
    Are the people in control rooms allowed to partake of the Communion?

    I used to serve in a day care during the Liturgy, and Abouna gave me permission to take Communion because it was considered service.

    I guess helping the broadcast is also service.
  • minatasgeelminatasgeel
    [quote author=TITL link=topic=10187.msg124499#msg124499 date=1292355524]
    Are the people in control rooms allowed to partake of the Communion?

    I used to serve in a day care during the Liturgy, and Abouna gave me permission to take Communion because it was considered service.

    I guess helping the broadcast is also service.

    yeah. they are in church....just in a closed room.
    actually, when i am really really tired and just can't stand inside church for some reason, i broadcast. the controlroom is very small. so i sit there, in the dark, concentrating on 3 screen of the 3 cameras we have (and that i can control--movement and zoom) mixing....i also like to higher the audio....and i don't like anyone else with me there. also whan that is so, no one of the kids dare to leave church and come to the controlroom because they know i'll be hitting them  :)
  • servant33servant33
    HG Bishop Youssef uses an ipad, which has his notes on it, to give his sermons during church services
  • peterfarringtonpeterfarrington
    Minagir, this is a question not a criticism, but why is the liturgy recorded?

    When I was seeking after Orthodoxy someone gave me an audio CD of a Byzantine Liturgy of St John Chrysostom in English from the Cathedral in London. It was very moving and I listened to it many times. But I only needed the one audio cassette to help me understand the liturgy a little more.

    And having become Orthodox I have hardly ever watched any liturgy on video. I did get sent a double CD of a liturgy from a Church in the US somewhere which I listened too quite a few times. And Midnight Praises from Kitchener I think. And I have some hymn CDs. But these are all rather different to the recording of regular liturgies as a matter of course. So I am interested in why the weekly liturgy would be recorded on audio or video?

    Maybe I am fanatical on this, or at least idiosyncratic. But it seems to me, as my personal opinion, that the liturgy can only be participated in, and to hear it or see it is not the same at all. It may be a blessing. But it is not the same as participating in the liturgy because the liturgy is the physical and personal coming together of the Church in a particular time and place. It is non-transferable. We are either there or we are not.

    Again, I can understand that a few recorded liturgies might be important. But I do not understand, and therefore must ask, why every liturgy would be recorded? It seems to me in some sense to be related to our modern practice of watching others rather than participating ourselves. Just as millions watch X-Factor and Pop Idol and I'm a Celebrity, Get Me Out Of Here, and Big Brother. Who are these videos for? Surely the practice of the Church through the last 2000 years has been that there is regular personal participation in the liturgy, and also an intentional rule of personal prayer as guided by the spiritual father. I am not convinced, from my own experience of being a Christian for 47 years, that I can pray while watching others at worship. Therefore I must ask myself again, who are these videos for?

    Father Peter
  • minatasgeelminatasgeel
    [quote author=servant33 link=topic=10187.msg124501#msg124501 date=1292358078]
    HG Bishop Youssef uses an ipad, which has his notes on it, to give his sermons during church services

    yes...and before that he used to use a palm to get english text when ordaining, or using the bible. it's not a big deal for things that are not available in books or you simply have no access to the book now.

    [quote author=Father Peter link=topic=10187.msg124504#msg124504 date=1292359377]
    Minagir, this is a question not a criticism, but why is the liturgy recorded?

    well....hard to answer this.
    first, we just do what we are told...so i was told to record, so i do.
    personally, what i think, there are some liturgies that are prayed to be recorded. i participated in many of those (as a deacon in a chorus and as one who helps in recording). but there are also liturgies that are not meant to record.....but sometimes you find out that they should of been recorded (past tense). so for that reason, sometimes i just record; if we need it, we save, if not, it's as easy as a button click to delete.....this is all for AUDIO recording.
    for Video recordings, it's just weird....i am not into it as much. again, if it is an important occasion, that is fine; there is a valid reason. but otherwise, it doesn't make sense to record.....BUT we do broadcast. the interface that we use to broadcast also records a med-quality web video format ...... so why not record what we broadcast and just upload it online....also this is all done automatically--recording flv, saving it, uploading to the server and latter be on saintmark.blip.tv
  • mmatt95mmatt95
    I have very mixed feelings about technology in church. Deep down i'd absolutely prefer using books or having the people know the liturgy by heart. However, we run into some practical problems.
    First of all, a lot of people don't take any books with them, so they may end up distracted or not participating. We noticed in our church a HUGE difference during the Midnight praises when there's a .ppt or not.
    Second, placing books / small booklets in church for people to use doesnt work with egyptians for some reason. Kids tear the books in pieces, people take them home and forget them next time, books fall, it's just not practical (at least, not from what I see around).
    Third, a lot of people are not familiair with the changes in rites during special occasions and its difficult to carry 3 or 4 books and flip through the pages to keep up with everything (at least, for the average person).

    I'm wondering myself why things have worked for 2000 years without all this technology, and why all these issues I mentioned (and other) are such obstacles nowadays. I really wish to have technology-free services, but we need some wisdom to fix practical issues. Any takers?
  • TITLTITL
    We didn't have PowerPoint presentations 10 years ago.

    I think Church spirituality {referring to the Egyptians, not our Mother Church} decreased in the past 10 years as well.

    I'm starting to see a trend. 
  • PaulSamirPaulSamir
    fr anthony messeh always says in his sermons that everyone should read all the readings of the church before coming to the service. because a lot of the times the deacon doesnt read clearly so that u need to understand it before you get there. and i guess not using your phone during a liturgy makes a good reason too ;)

    but i think there are exceptions. like during saturday vespers we pray in a chapel where there is no katamrous  and we either have the reading on the TV screen or someone pulls out thier iphone puts it on the podium and reads from it. another situation i can have been in is during a weekday liturgy we pray in the same chapel but it doesnt have song books for communion. so a deacon gets his phone out to sing night of the last supper until we can get on the screen
  • ZoxsasiZoxsasi
    OK..look,

    back to my original topic.

    ALL bible readings are in Arabic. The synaxarium is either in Arabic or Flemish (usually Arabic).

    IS IT OK IF I USE THE iCOPTIC APP TO READ THE TRANSLATION WHILST IT IS BEING READ???

    I am happy to put my phone in AIRPORT MODE if you want..

    PLEASE ANSWER WITH A SIMPLE : YES or NO!!!

    THanks
  • PaulSamirPaulSamir
    i would say no because as a deacon you are the example people look up to.
    best thing to do is just read and/or mediate on all readings before church
  • TITLTITL
    I second that thought.
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